This was live at Iowa Independent and in a funky embedded window here. Best technical way I could come up with to liveblog on two sites at once.
The scene in the news room as couch potato liveblogging got underway
8:44 and signing off; The shadow of Fred Thompson was not as long as I had expected. Dem Paul Begala predictably predicts that this Debate is good for Dems; all candidates except Paul essentially back administration on war, that means Dems win. Thanks for tuning in, let's do this again real soon sometime.
8:17 and second sound bite to Romney on immigration. Now he's with Larry King. King asks about Fred Thompson, Alberto G. Larry throws him a variation of "why are you running," Mitt says "I can build a good team." Larry: "Are you getting tired of the Mormon question?" (Asking it yet again in the process.) Mitt says it doesn't matter. Larry signs off with "the hat is firmly in the ring," which seems silly considering that he just participated in the debate and all.
Ron Paul is a better gadfly that Mike Gravel. All I remember about Duncan Hunter is that he twice mentioned that his son enlisted.
Third sound bite: McCain on why we have to stay in Iraq. Mike Murphy says the war hurts McCain less than immigration does. Arianna notes that Brownback's partition is much like Biden's -- not sure Biden's calling for actual separate states, though. Would have to check that.
8:12 GOP pundit Mike Murphy says frontrunners do well, Tommy Thompson had a good health care answer. Arianna Huffington says we're on McCain's turf and NH doesn't care much about immigration. Jeffrey Toobin agrees with me that Huckabee sounded good. "I didn't understand some of what Romney said, frankly incomprehensible." No one has yet mentioned Tancredo calling for an end to legal immigration. The first replay goes to Huckabee.
8:06 Blitzer calls Brownback's three-part Iraq partition plan a "nuance" when in fact it's a major proposal. Notes massive Dem-GOP splits on gays in military, health care.
Larry King has Rudy. Tosses him softballs: is it tough running as an ex-mayor? Gee, didn't you attack the Democrats a lot? (Which gives him a chance to do it more). Isn't Iraq a big deal? Can the Yankees still win? (That’s not a joke; it's an actual question.)
8:00. Game over. The pundits are getting A-listers early -- Rudy, Mitt, McCain. Unlike Dems, who settled for surrogates and second tier.
The shocking statement to me was Tancredo's call for an end to legal immigration. Standout moment to me was Huckabee very sincerely talking about anti-choice as part of a whole-life framework and sounding as sincere as any seamless garment liberal. Brownback tried it but he couldn't pull it off, he sidetracked to attack Rudy -- then crashed when he said, "I'll support him anyway if nominated." That's my big surprise -- Huckabee sounded good, but has no traction.
Here's McCain. "Wish we could get more into details of immigration bill." Wasn’t time for me to rebut everything. "Amnesty means forgiveness, and they call anything short of deportation amnesty. This bill is very tough." People want this solved and we have to work bipartisan.
7:54 State legislator ask how to bring back moderates.
Gilmore: Conservatism still stands for all people. It's about empowering people and values.
Hunter asked about AHnold. Should GOP do same, be more moderate? Hunter: NO. Romney and Giuliani hate guns, McCain luuuvs Ted Kennedy. "We need to move away from Kennedy wing of GOP."
Romney: The model is Ronald Reagan. Strong Military, Economy, Family Values. Optimism.
Rudy: "Nominate me." On offense against terror, (Dems Dems Dems) offense on economy.
McCain: "Protect the family." Fight extremism. Good vs. evil.
7:50 What does it mean to be an American.
Tancredo: "Cut your ties with the past." Stop all legal immigration, enough is enough, and start assimilating people. Until we don't have to press 1 for English anymore.
Huckabee: I disagree. We should welcome legal immigration, and we need a secure border. A sane sensible system.
Rudy: I'm uncomfortable with Tancredo's idea. Lincoln, who fought know-nothings (ooh!): "how much do you believe in freedom?" If we lose that, we lose what has made America what it is?
McCain: Tancredo beyond my ream of thinking: Being American is about beliefs. Statue of liberty still the idea -- legal, of course...
7:44 How does your position differ from Bush?
McCain: "Spending spending spending spending." That's verbatim, four times. And corruption. And earmarks. And spending.
Lightning round: Rudy -- accountability in DC. "Republicans became Democrats." Romney: "We're a party of the future." The vision thing. Brownback: Spending, hope and ideas. Cancer research. Tommy Thompson: We didn't come up with new ideas, be real conservatives. Tancredo: Bush ran as conservative, governed as liberal. Paul: Bush changed his tune on foreign policy. Gilmore: Principle. And immigration bill is bad, so is spending. And Hillary is wrong on tax cuts. Wants to get it all in. Hunter: Did I mention my son was in the war? Huckabee: Taxation, regulation, immigration, litigation, communication. Congratulations. All we are saying is give me a chance.
7:39. To Romney. If you support English, why do you have Spanish ads?
Romney tries to split immigrant vs. illegal, doesn't directly say. "We are the party of the future" long discussion, Wolf cuts off.
Tancredo, would you advertise in Spanish? No. Preserving English is the glue that holds us together.
McCain: "Muchas Gracias." Gets a few laughs, probably not as many as he hoped. The special path to citizenship is especially hard. Spanish culture has enriched my state. Read the Vietnam wall, see all the Hispanic names. These are God's children and enrich our nation.
7:33 Professor asks what's the most pressing moral issue?
Huckabee: Sanctity of life. All life, not just during pregnancy. Includes elder abuse, homelessness, and human expendability. Compare that to suicide bombers. "They celebrate death, we celebrate life." That was very eloquent for that niche, a stop typing and watch moment.
Rudy: Talks of freedoms and sharing freedom with the rest of world.
Ron Paul: The acceptance of preemptive war. Not part of the American tradition. Iran has done nothing to us, is no threat to national security. We can't change world by force (applause)
Brownback: Life life life. We can't nominate someone not pro-life. But when asked would back Rudy.
7:29 blogger asks about single payer. HA!
Tommy Thompson says this is first health care talk in two debates, talks wellness and prevention. Tobacco and obesity. Manage care to reduce costs, electronic records. Talking fast to take advantage of a rare chance, some applause.
Romney asked about Mass. program ("worked with Ted Kennedy" probably not a hit...) Romney: Mass plan was to save small business, was not government taken over. Everyone in Mass. covered with private insurance, personal responsibility. Uses the socialized medicine line. "They just talk about it, I actually tackled this issue."
7:25 Prescription drugs (first health care of night)
Rudy frames it as a free market thing, gets applause. Calls Democrats socialized medicine in that general election frame again. The delete key ate the better version.
Huckabee says drug prices in part driven by drug R&D. We need to sell health insurance across state lines.
7:23 Attorney asks if conservative platform can include conservation?
Gilmore: it comes down to energy independence and related national security. He wants to work immigration in too but can't quite.
Tancredo: Teddy Roosevelt showed it can work, do it through conservative principles. You can make conservation profitable.
7:19 Soldier and wife: how do we get an Iraqi gov't in place?
Paul: We've had four years, it hasn't worked. Their biggest incentive is for us to leave. We can't enforce our goodness with force. (applause, not huge)
Rudy: Your sacrifice is why we're safe. If we get Iraq right we're safer. We overthrew Saddam very effectively, but we didn’t make their existence orderly. We should measure economy, schools, etc. on orderly society. Are we going to report the positives? (big applause)
7:14 and Blitzer is back with the citizen questions. First is a sister of a killed soldier. What would you do to get this to where we can "safely bring them home."
Duncan Hunter gets it and the "thank you for his service" gets big applause and a second one for Duncan Hunter Jr. enlisting. The answer: moving Iraqi troops in to replace US (Vietnamization?)
Brownback: it's not about leaving, it's about getting to a point where we can turn it over. Returns to his three-state solution. This administration has no political solution.
McCain: This war was badly mismanaged for a long time. We have a strategy that can succeed. If we fail it becomes a center for terrorism.
7:08 the pundits pundit. Overall more applause than in the Dem debate. The pundits are seeing no knockout punches. The most interesting moment to me was the mixture of cheers and catcalls on McCain's immigration answers. Rudy was debating the Dems say the pundits. Huckabee is getting blown off, says me.
More technical difficulties than Sunday night. Part of that was a thunderstorm in Manchester.
Gilmore and Hunter seem generic, Romney gets non-specific and evasive sometimes. There's more dog-whistle politics her -- such as the drug case that Duncan Hunter brought up; some border agents who got prison sentences and appear to be a cause celebre on the right. I'll have to look that up because I never heard of it.
7:00 to T Thompson: How would you use Bush 43? "I certainly wouldn't send him to the UN." some kind of motivational speaker, it sounds like.
Brownback: I'd ask him. I think he'd step out of limelight. He can fundraise if there's another tsunami. B Clinton has done too much on policy, should defer more.
Tancredo: I'm so disappointed in Bush... I'd tell him to go away (applause)
to Huckabee: what's happened to the GOP? "We didn't do what we were hired to do. We did the opposite -- people fired us. We deserved to get beat." Katrina, corruption, details of war, indifference to illegal immigrations. Answers the immigration question and gets applause.
Hunter -- should Bush pardon Scooter? Hunter: look at the transcript, mentions a drug case I don't know and gets applause (must be a big deal in GOP circles). Bring back Reagan Dems.
Pardon Scooter? Mostly nos. McCain discusses, Rudy: sentence was out of line. Romney: I didn't pardon anyone but I'd study this. Brownback gives a yes. T Thompson brings up Monica Lewinsky... I missed some stuff but they were getting kind of Lightning Round on me there.
That's the end of part 1.
6:55 to Paul: gays in military? Paul: Don't ask is OK. Problem is seeing people in groups, our rights are as individuals. Look at individual disruptive behavior. (applause)
Huckabee: It's already covered by military code. Objects to not being asked about immigration. (Ron Paul's out clocking him)
To Rudy: Language experts expelled for being gay. Rudy: Colin Powell said Don't Ask is good. Wrong time to change the policy.
Romney: you backed gays in military in `94. Mitt: Don't Ask is working, not time to change, like Rudy said like Rudy said. Talk about bigger issues.
McCain: I'm proud of the military (biggest applause of night). Rely in the military leadership, so it’s a mistake to change, the policy is working.
Should gays be allowed to openly serve? No hands.
6:49 to Rudy, global warming. Rudy: human action contributes to global warming. We should support all energy alternatives, Apollo Program (bipartisan).
To Romney -is GOP too close to Oil? Romney: Big Oil should invest profits in refineries. The $ is also being made in the courtiers that have oil: Russia, Iran, and Venezuela.. so we need independence. (mentions list including nuke power)
McCain: nuclear power at some length and other alternate sources. Mentions ethanol at end.
To Paul: tax subsidies to oil? Paul: The profit is OK if legitimately earned, but I object to the subsidies. Need to discuss foreign policy. We did we overthrow Mossadeq in `53? OIL. We go to war for oil.
Gilmore: Look to all sources, mentions nuclear twice. Kyoto fatally flawed, was transferring $ to Russia for nothing. China and India need to be involved.
6:43 to Huckabee -- evolution? Mike: Rejects premise but answers with Genesis 1:1. Question in first debate was simplistic. Huckabee's the neglected one thus far in the debate... I believe in God about three times. Wolf: the specific question is literal bible. Huckabee "I wasn’t there." Gets applause for overall answer.
Brownback: Faith Seeking Reason. We're created in image of God for a purpose. We've put faith and science at odds with each other, that's wrong. (applause)
McCain: teach creationism? McCain: up to school districts. I admire Huckabee's description.
To Romney: You're a Mormon. Open ended. Romney: Cites JFK. "I'm an American running for president." Cites a litany of traditional Christian beliefs. I won't distance myself from my faith.
Paul: 1st Amendment. Should be local people determining this, don't need more laws determining this. That's the magnificence of Constitution.
6:38 to Gilmore: Some Rudy McRomney chuckles. Is Fred T. a conservative? Gilmore: We don't know what he is. Let's see. I'm a 40-year conservative battler. Let's let everyone stand on credentials.
Tommy -- do we need another Thompson? Tommy parries the joke. No one's cut taxes as much as I have, I'm the reliable conservative.
To Rudy -- choice stance compared to Pontius Pilate. Sound cuts out at critical moment, to much mirth. Rudy: I respect religion, but in public life I have to do what's right for country. Gov't should not enforce that moral decision.
To Mitt: Are you a flip flopper? Romney presents laundry list of conservative issues.
631 -- to Hunter: what if the illegals leave, who does jobs? Hunter: American citizens lined up for the Swift jobs in Iowa. "If they get across my fence we sign `em up for the Olympics." They slowed the fence down so they could come out with Amnesty. "Bush-McCain-Kennedy" bill applause.
Brownback -- No new paths to citizenship, let them get in the back of the line for current paths. Border enforcement, interior enforcement -- that can work, better than nothing. Qualified support for McCain bill.
T Thompson: Secure border first. This is an amnesty bill. People believe in secure border first
Paul: We subsidize illegal immigration, so we get more of it. If we had a truly free market economy they would not be scapegoat (applause)
Raise hands: English official language? Seems unanimous. McCain goes on about Navajo language negotiations in AZ. My bill requires learning English.
6:23 Immigration to Tancredo (chuckles in audience). Tancredo: It's not just jobs, schools, hospitals, and welfare -- will we survive as a nation? We're testing our willingness to hold together as a nation, to hold onto English. Bilingual nation is not good. I'll go after any Republican who supports (big applause)
Rudy -- plan has no unifying purpose. Everyone compromises, Washington mess. May make things worse. Need ID card, database, throw out these not in. Credit companies can do, so can we.
Romney asked about McCain attacks on his flip-flop. Romney: I won't personalize. We should enforce laws. Z Visa is a problem. Almost everyone gets to stay, unfair to millions of others waiting (applause)
McCain: I agree with Judd Gregg (who called Tancredo "Know-Nothing"). And hey, Rudy, that stuff's in the plan. This is nat'l security. We've come together and figured out a bipartisan approach. We need to act. You got a better idea? (Hoots, mixed applause and boos). This is not what I would have written myself. Wolf tries to cut off six times or so...
Rudy: "They say things, bit it's not in the legislation." No uniform database, no departure data. 9/11.
Romney -- what would you do with those here "Enforce the law as it exists" (applause) Make Z Visa temporary.
6:17 to Brownback -- negotiations with Iran? Brownback: at times we do have to talk, that's not negotiation. We have to confront them for sponsoring terrorism.
Hunter: 2 conditions 1) we need to stop equipment moving from Iran to Iraq and 2) US may have to pre-empt Iran nukes. Wolf: would you (tactical) nuke Iran? "If there was no other way to pre-empt." Don't think it'll take that.
Rudy: Could probably be done conventional -- attacks Dems again. Iran can hand nuclear materials to terrorists. This is a real war (applause)
Gilmore: Iran wants to dominate that part of world -- 1) work with Europe on sanctions 2) Iran nuke unacceptable, all options on table.
Romney: don't take options off table, but step back. People are testing US. "We're not arrogant, but we have resolve." Dems don't think there's a war on terror (applause)
6:10 to McCain -- what if surge fails by Sept? McCain mourns and praises troops, strategy needs to be given a chance to succeed. When Hillary calls this Bush's war... I didn't attack Bill for Kosovo... it's nations that lose wars. (Applause) Then you have to examine options. Brownback plan would "divide bedrooms." Genocide, destabilization, Israel, etc., etc.
T Thompson: Bush should demand Iraq gov’t vote on whether we should stay. Each region of Iraq should elect local leaders. Oil revenue splits.
Hunter -- how much longer should US stay if surge fails? Depends on reliable Iraqi forces. Need to get them combat capable, rotate in.
Paul: Sooner we come home the better. Was a mistake to go, a mistake to stay. We're more threatened by staying (applause)
Romney: It's Reagan's Birthday! Taliban believes they brought down USSR. "The size of the fight in the dog."
Tancredo: I opposed surge but hope it works. If not, Iraq has "a republic if you can keep it." (applause)
6:05 to Romney -- was it a mistake to invade Iraq? Mitt: we new what we knew at that time. We did not lose the war, bud did not do a great job after winning. Need to stabilize, then bring home. Wolf: knowing what you know now? Romney says that's a "null set question."
Rudy -- same. "Absolutely the right thing to do." Iraq part of overall terrorist war. Dems in denial. Takes it on attack to Dems, turns it into Iran.
McCain -- did you read intelligence estimate? McCain, no, hundreds of briefing. Sanctions were failing. Saddam had WMDs.
Brownback calls for three state solution.
Gilmore: people who sent US to war should have read that report. US needs to create stability in Middle East. Saddam was unstable, but we didn't anticipate more instability.
6:00 and let the games begin. Wolf Blitzer moderating again. Ground rules: Similar. Part 1 journalist questions, Hour 2 citizens, honor system timing (see Chris Dodd for details). Stay on topic, etc.
Batting order: Tancredo, Tommy Thompson gets in a Fred joke, Brownback, Romney, Giuliani, McCain, Huckabee, Hunter, Gilmore, Paul. Same pattern of frontrunners in the middle.
5:58 and the contenders are at the podiums. GOP Ed Rollins and Dem Robert Zimmerman (not the Hibbing-born singer) pundit on partisan lines. Talk turns to Fred -- who messes up the shorthand. Tom=Thompson or Tancredo? Thompson=Fred or Tommy?
The Fred Fenomenon reminds me of Lee Iacocca circa 1986 or Colin Powell 1995 -- people read into him whatever they want. Of course in this case there's an actual record.
5:51 and greetings from the couch. Catching the crawl below the talking heads, McCain warns of immigration riots. Not quite clear which way. But the talk leading up to the debate is immigration, immigration, immigration -- just as the Democratic pre-game was war, war, war.
Ten candidates will take the stage -- but the unseen 11th contender, Fred Thompson, will cast a shadow.
Caucuses, Debates, Republicans, Sam Brownback,Jim Gilmore, Rudy Giuliani, Mike Huckabee, Duncan Hunter, John McCain, Ron Paul, Mitt Romney, Tom Tancredo, Tommy Thompson
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