(I decided this works better chronological, not reverse chronological.)
Well, since folks seem to like the liveblog style, I'll try a new tactic tonight. It's 5:38 and I'm settling in on the couch for the CNN New Hampshire debate. The pre-game show is on and the pundits are punditting; host Lou Dobbs is playing the "war on the middle class" card. James Carville is talking about "voting people off the island" and eliminating some candidates (read GraVEL, Kookcinich) from future debates. Dobbs calls himself a contrarian, says he hopes a second tier candidate has a breakthrough.
5:53. The pundits going on and on about the importance of the independents - I dissent. The independents are just leaners, with voting patterns similar to the partisans. The pure swing-vote independent has nearly vanished. Ed Rollins says presidential politics is "New Hampshire's sport" and of water cooler importance in the state.
5:56 and they're lining up. The frontrunners in the middle. I'm hoping everyone gets all the same ?'s - one of my frustrations with the MSNBC debate. Partisan banter among the pundits.
6:03. To Obama -- is Bush thwarting terror at home? Obama: No. We live in a more dangerous world not less. Phase out Iraq war, focus of Afghanistan, root out Al-Quada. Bush has cracked down on finances, but not stregthened US alliances.
To Edwards – re: bumper sticker remark. Is the US not at war with terrorists? Edwards: it's a bumper sticker, and I'll use every tool to fight terrorists. The slogan is used by Bush to justify actions.
HRC: I believe we are safer than we were but not safe enough.
Kucinich -- you voted against Patriot Act. DK: quotes Franklin on freedom. Patriot has undermined freedoms, unconstitutional.
Showtime. Audience questions in second half. Timing is the honor system, we'll see how that works. "Candidates must stay on topic of original question." Riiiight.
Batting order: Gravel, Dodd, Edwards, Clinton, Obama, Richardson, Biden, and Kucinich.
6:08. Biden -- you voted to fund. Why were your opponents wrong? Biden: We need to tell the truth, we need to get mine resistant vehicles in now. Lives are at stake. I don't want to judge my opponents, we are working together to end the war. But as long as there's one troop in Iraq, I will not vote no to funding.
Clinton -- why was this your first vote against funding - playing politics? HRC - because it was time to say Enough Is Enough. The GOP candidates all support.
Obama -- same question. Obama - "everybody supports troops." This vote was about the continuation of a plan that has not worked. best way to support troops; don't impose mil solution on political problem.
Edwards: it's a difference between leading and following. The way to end is for Congress to defund. Need a timetable. Gives props to Dodd. When pushed by moderator, disses Clinton, Obama, but they cast the right vote.
Obama - I opposed war from start, Edwards, you're 4 1/2 years late on this. ooh! Says Biden's perspective is legit.
Clinton - This is Bush's war. We're casting votes that actually make a difference on the inside. (implied: as opposed to out of office Edwards) Differences btw. minor compared to GOP.
Edwards: there's a difference - need to make clear at critical moment, vs. being quiet.
Dodd: thanks, Edwards. (He was getting blown off in last exchange.) There's no military solution to this, we need a date certain.
To Richardson -- what if withdrawal leads to genocide? Richardson: it's a civil war. Deauthorize the war. Blitzer: "what about genocide?" I'd keep troops in Kuwait, Afghanistan. But our troops are a target.
Not a word from Gravel yet. Here he is! "I totally disagree." Says Dems facilitated this war. How do we know what will happen?
6:20. To Kucinich. They can't hear the questioner. Was the mission in Iraq worth the effort? DK: I honor those who served, but those who sent them were wrong. Defund now. "The Dems were put in charge, they have to stop the funding." $ in pipeline enough to bring them home.
Biden: Tell the truth. We have FIFTY VOTES in the senate. WE NEED 67 AND A DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT. (Loud like last night.)
To Clinton -- do you regret your vote? HRC - I was thoroughly briefed at the time... that was a sincere vote based on my assessment. None of us counted on him not letting inspectors finished. We could argue the past forever. Our troops gave Iraqis a chance to self-govern, Iraqis blew it.
6:24 Edwards -- I had the info I needed, but one difference w/ HRC is "I think I was wrong." Obama deserves credit for being against it from beginning (applause).
To Obama -- should someone who voted yes be president? Obama: not a disqualifier. When I looked at the issue I saw a weak case, fear mongering. To move forward, we have to not throw our troops at a civil war. A distraction from Afghanistan, finish the job.
Gravel says vote yes is a disqualifier. "These people knew there were two sets of intelligence, and made a political decision." Sounds angry angry. "Bad moral judgment."
Clinton -- I've said repeatedly If I Knew Then What I Know Now. What was wrong is way Bush misused authority.
6:28 To Richardson: how is your immigration plan not amnesty? Richardson: I'm a border governor, we have a border emergency. I won't support walls, or dividing families. Increase patrols, earned citizenship w/ English, taxes, etc. And penalizing employers. Blitzer: Why isn't this amnesty? Richardson: mostly repeats points. Wolf cuts him off.
6:31 Biden. How are we going to round 14 million up? We need background checks. Being commander in chef means occasionally being practical. I voted for the fence because it was the only option, and for drug smuggling.
To Obama: what about Canada, and evenhandedness? Obama -- we are a country of immigrants, and of laws, how do we balance? Most Americans will support path to citizenship with a secure border. Sensible.
6:34 -- Raise of hands: English as official language? Only Gravel raises his hand. Gets applause. Obama: this kind of question is designed to divide us, also applause. Clinton jumps in: if it becomes O-FFicial, there'd be big problems in NYC. Doctors and translators, etc.
Dodd: We need to encourage more language training. This is a global economy. He mentions his Spanish skills but does not use them.
6:37 to Edwards -- health care costs. Are your opponents honest? Edwards: Obama's plan deserves credit but is not universal. And he included costs. You can't cover everyone and create a better system for nothing. People are sick of politicians who (lay out elaborate plans without $$$).
To Obama: plan not universal? Obama: Edwards plan good, our main disagreement is over mandatory insurance. Most families want care but can't afford. I emphasize driving down costs.
To Clinton: Obama plan? Clinton: thrilled it's back on the agenda. The political will is more important than the plan. Need broad coalition when the inevitable attacks come. Blitzer: without raising taxes? Clinton: $120 billion in savings. The challenge is how to realize the savings. "any Dem will let Bush tax cuts expire."
Richardson: NM insured all kids under 5. My plan mandatory.
Dodd: Health care system shameful. Our plans have basic agreement. What's missing is getting the job done.
Edwards: Back to Obama on universality, "he'll do something about that later." And all Clinton savings are in my plan and Obama. Obama: Mandatory doesn't work if people can't afford it. You take it from opposite direction. Edwards: "children can't make that decision."
Kucinich: I reject the whole approach. Only way is single payer. The other plans let insurance companies stay in charge. Applause.
6:47. To Clinton -- don't ask don't tell a mistake? Clinton - a transitional policy. Not the best way to proceed. We're discharging Arabic linguists! Let LBG serve. Quotes Goldwater - don't have to be straight to shoot straight - applause. Blitzer "was your husband's decision wrong?' HRC - a transition, a compromise.
To Biden -- gays in military demoralizing? Biden: WRONG. This is ridiculous, irrational.
Show of hands: get rid of don't ask don't tell? Unanimous.
Richardson: I support hate crimes law, civil unions, and nondiscrimination. A president has to show leadership.
To Edwards -- civil unions? (Crowd likes, applauds) How about marriage? Edwards: Feds don't have a role in telling states, churches who to recognize. Stand up against discrimination. "It is the job of a president not to legislate, but to lead."
6:53 To Gravel -- how would you use former pres. Clinton in your administration? Hillary laughs. Roving ambassador. "Under supervision he'll do OK."
Same question to Richardson. "The ideal job would be UN Secretary General" but not doable. He is needed in the Middle East. Are they going to ask Hillary this?
And to Obama. Obama gives props to the former first lady then uses the answer to Bush bash.
And to the NY Senator. "A fascinating question. I believe in using former president, we need help to repair the damage" of Bush. Applause. Bottom line is roving ambassador.
6:57 to Dodd: how to reduce gas prices? Dodd tries to give the whole energy and global warming answer. 50 MPG standard and carbon tax. Blitzer: but what about reducing gas price? Dodd: the real way to get at this is reducing our dependency.
Gravel: I'd do nothing to reduce prices. "We Americans have to grow up." We spend $4 a gallon to keep troops overseas.
Edwards: Investigate vertical integration of oil and gas companies, may need to look at antitrust. In the long term, Dodd is right. In the short term sop subsidizing.
Richardson: NM is The Clean Energy State. In short term let states do price gouging investigation. We need Apollo Program asking every American to sacrifice. My plan is the most aggressive.
Biden: Take away subsidies, investigate gouging. Raise MPG.
7:02 and we transition to part two. The pundits will pundit. Larry King declares Edwards the early leader. Candidates shake hands with audience. They pick up on Obama's 4 1/2 years line, Biden's can't defund the troops, Edwards "leaders need to lead." No one picks up on Gravel's "I'd do nothing to lower gas prices" which I liked but is probably going to go over as well as Walter Mondale's pledge to raise taxes. Candy Crowley says Clinton is staying above the fray. The pundits say there's Edwards-Clinton tension, note Edwards use of "Hillary" vs. male candidates name. Others dismiss that noting her campaign materials.
Hey, they showed the bloggers! They say the anti-war left -- and by extension us bloggers -- are Clinton's problem.
The candidates will be seated for part two.
7:09 three minutes turned to six.
Question 1 is from a soldier's wife, unit lost two troops this week. She chokes up a bit. How do you plan on rebuilding the military?
Kucinich: we need to end occupation. Offer no bill at all and defund. He's more retrained than usual. Military needs to be a PEACEkeeping force. Blitzer: how to rebuild? Kucinich: need to cut mil spending 25% and focus spending more on the troops.
Obama: Difference between Pentagon budget and size of military: outdated weapon system. Need to provide all support troops need on the ground, and when they come home they deserve dignity and honor. This admin has not done so.
Dodd: Need to transform our military needs from the cold war era. Need to keep US safe and secure - to do that we need to use military "not as the first arrow."
7:15 A troop spouse. Why can't vets get med services at the hospital of their choice?
Obama: We can get important efficiencies having a VA system, such as prescription drugs. But part of that's because Medicare can't negotiate. We need a VA that serves everyone, and need to give people some private hospital options. Should go to VA unless hardship or access issues.
Richardson: I disagree. Proposes Hero's Health Card good anywhere for troops. And we still need a well-funded VA.
Gravel's VA experiences. He's a Korea vet. "Government has always waged war against vets." Starts out really thoughtful, then raises Walter Reed and gets all GraVELy. Obama responds. We tried to get more funding for returning troops, Bush turned us down. The medical facility at Reed is great, the outpatient stuff was a disaster.
7:21. Retiree who lived in Iran in Shah era. Force vs. diplomacy there?
Clinton -- we should have negotiated years ago. Glad it started but way overdue. In cold war we always talked to USSR. Need "kind of diplomacy Richardson did for my husband." Iran nukes unacceptable (applause.) Blitzer: what if diplomacy fails. LOL line "they send Dick Cheney, which is hardly diplomatic."
Edwards: Long history of pro-American in Iran. The people in a different place that Iran president. Need carrots on table - nuclear fuel - and economic incentives. The stick is sanctions. Drive wedge between Iranian people and their leader. "no responsible president would take any option off the table."
Biden: Do away with the policy of regime change. Iran is weak, a decade away from a bomb. "But in the end, I'd take a missile out."
7:26. Professor asks about Pakistan.
Clinton: Musharraf has not moved toward democracy. But we depend on him to control tribal areas. US needs to be focused on this. Need high-level envoy to work on mutual interest.
To Kucinich, would you take Osama out if it killed civilians? Kucinich: Assassination should not be a tool. Osama should be captured and put on trial.
Obama: I don't believe in assassinations either, but under existing military law Osama's a military target. Our presence in Iraq makes it harder to work with the region effectively.
Show of hands: would you take Osama out if it killed civilians? All hands go up except Kucinich, but all compete to offer qualifiers. Clinton gets hers out first. Edwards: Returns to Pakistan question; if Musharraf goes, we have no idea what's next.
7:32 high school teacher asks about Darfur.
Biden: I was just there. We need to stop just talking about it. Sudan has forfeited sovereignty. US should impose no fly zone, send in troops.
Show of hands: agree with Biden? Everyone talks at once; Clinton objects to hypotheticals and gets applause.
Richardson: I'd not use force - I was there, we made things a little better. More UN peacekeepers, econ sanctions. China has leverage too. Threatens Olympic boycott. "We need a country that cares about Africa, and we don't."
Dodd opposes Olympic boycott. Edwards says Darfur is part of bigger puzzle: "America no longer has the authority to exercise moral leadership in the world" (a stump line)
Obama: Gitmo, habeas corpus erodes our moral claims. Dodd gets back to Olympics. Richardson, Obama raise hands in agreement with Biden. Biden gets mad: A now fly zone sets up our moral authority. Gets applause. Richardson: China buys Sudan oil, a leverage point. But we don't need another military involvement. (There seems to be consensus on no fly zone.)
7:39: High school senior asks about mandatory national service.
Gravel: I helped end the draft. I'd like a voluntary public service program combined with free school (applause).
Kucinich: Inspire young people to want to serve. "To make it mandatory loses the point."
To Dodd: bring back draft? Dodd -- no. Talks of Peace Corps experience. I like the idea of Americorps, and financial relief for college costs.
7:42 Small business owner on tax cuts to rich: define "rich."
Obama: $250k a year (repeal of Bush tax cuts). Folks are feeling hit from all sides. Burdens and benefits of global economy are uneven, we need more economic fairness. In some brackets we need lower taxes, like Earned Income Credit. "My starting point is, are we spending money wisely."
Edwards: I'd roll back tax cuts over $200k a year. College for everyone program in North Carolina. We want to make it simple, they have to work for it, and it eases debts.
7:46 hairdresser asks about deficit.
Richardson: I've balanced five budgets. Need balanced budget amendment and line item veto. Get rid of earmarks, corporate welfare. Grow the economy. "I'm a pro-growth Democrat."
Kucinich: Don't borrow from China to pay for war. Get out of NAFTA and WTO gets applause. Uses the answer to get out an entire platform.
7:50. Email from blogger calls earmarks "bribes." Will you veto all bills with earmarks?
Dodd: We need to discourage that, but we can't have a blanket approach, too rigid. Things like Katrina. I offered pay as you go budget 23 years ago. Fiscal policies ought to reflect our moral values, fairness.
Gravel: Totally time to get rid of earmarks, need line item veto. Change entire tax structure.
Clinton: Six years ago we had a surplus. Applause. No free lunch - we raised taxes and cut spending, need to do again. Bush cuts disproportionate. Gravel says budget balanced only by raiding Social Security. Kucinich rolls on interest groups. Biden calls for public campaign finance and gets applause twice.
7:55 Sub teacher asks the 1st 100 days question.
Edwards: Travel world and re-establish American moral authority and alliances.
Clinton: Bring troops home, applause.
Obama: Agrees, and get moving on health care.
Richardson: Upgrade education. Minimum wage for teachers ($40k)
Biden: End the war, defuse Iran and Korea. The next president has no margin for error.
Kucinich: We could stop war now. Reshape world for peace, get rid of all nuclear weapons, cancel NAFTA, he's trying to get it all in.
Gravel: End the war NOW, folks.
Dodd: Restore constitutional rights, gets applause.
8:00 we're done. The spouses gather on stage except Mrs. Obama and Mr. Clinton.
8:15 and the pundits are telling me what to think. Trying to decide if I want to reverse the order of this now that it's done, chronological vs. reverse chronological.
The pundits tell me the most important thing was Edwards going after Clinton and Obama for not loudly proclaiming their positions on the war funding vote and voting at the end of the roll call. The supporters of Obama and Clinton say the important thing is they voted right.
I think the really interesting ideas came from the asterisk candidates: GraVEL saying we should pay more for gas, Kucinich the only candidate calling for single payer health care, Biden and public campaign finance.
Biden wants 90 minute single issue debates to get beyond soundbites. Dodd quite clearly thinks he didn't get a fair share of time. Richardson was also on; they had spinners for Obama and Clinton, and Elizabeth for John Edwards.
Just noticing on the highlight reel: John Edwards wearing a Livestrong bracelet.
9:09 and the Dodd campaign has a graphic on their site:
It stopwatches the candidates: Obama 16:00 even, Clinton 14:26, Edwards 11:42... Dodd 8:28 and less than Kucinich.
The pundits continue to pundit: consensus is Clinton solid, trying to mute differences on the war.
Dodd is first in the in box at 9:18:
Despite the disproportionate amount of time alloted each candidate Chris Dodd again demonstrated that he is the only candidate with the conviction and boldness to solve the challenges the country faces.
Efficient - but leading with the time complaint.
Hiç yorum yok:
Yorum Gönder